Rod Knock

[Themarauderguy]

TheMarauderGuy - Ford put Engine Assembly 3W3Z-6006-ABRM in it October 2007 - 60K miles ago.


I think that is a long block which means it should have been a new timing set with the new block and improved heads?[/QUOTE]
I've seen several reman engines from Ford fail. even the timing components. just because its only a 60k miles doesn't mean it's exempt. not saying thats your issue just given possible idea of what it could be. If I was in your shoes I'd pull the engine! As far as improved cylinder heads it should be in the cast # should be DB or DC I believe. Anyway good luck on your journey hope you get it figured out. I know it sucks when these cars break down. But for me it's a love-hate relationship.

[boom boom]

Headed to Carlisle tomorrow anyway, so maybe I'll get lucky and find a terminator engine for cheap (yeah right, but fingers crossed). In the meantime, thanks for all the advice.


I am leaning more and more to just pulling the engine and then diagnosing. It will give me a chance to open it up and look at everything and clean everything back up. The transmission has always been a little funky and I have all the parts for a TR3650 swap. Even if the timing set is wiped out, I'll want the pan off to clean everything out. All of this is pushing me to pull the plant. I did the engine harness r&r in about 2-3 hours with a repair. The manifold bell bolts looks great so I am thinking that I can have the engine/trans out before lunch.


Can I get the engine/trans out without removing the hood? They clearly took it off the last time.


Do I need to remove the trans crossmember to pull everything or do I have enough forward movement to clear the tailshaft?

[Themarauderguy]

Yes you can pull the engine/ transmission with the hood on. you just have to take loose the hood shocks and put a long enough Pole to hold it open so it clears. I've done it several times. And yes the transmission crossmember has to come down that's a bit of a pain to get that out. You'll need a think strong pry bar to get the crossmember out.

[rkapp2004]

Just fixed mine as it was doing the same thing... smoothed out during throttle increase and got worse when I let off. Tried inspecting the flex plate through the inspection cover before pulling motor. Some on site thought this noise could be caused by a cracked flex plate OR loose bolts. Not the case for me.

I ended up pulling the motor out, thanks to much advice and pointers from members of this site and I was glad I did. The pan was full of timing chain guide pieces and a couple small pieces were caught in the sump tube. After final dis-assembly found the second rod back was the culprit. It was so bad that the crank could not be turned.

After a new crank, main, rod bearing kit and new rings with a hone job (plus new oil pump) I re-assembled and re-installed. Have 500 miles on it and sounds like a new.

Sorry, I can't tell you if the pan can be removed while in the car but at a minimum you will have to raise the motor to try it. I will tell you that the motor will come out with the hood left on. You will have to remove the upper and lower intake but that is necessary to get to the top side bell housing bolts anyway.

Good Luck!

[boom boom]

Welp, I finally got some time with the car. Family and work have been keeping me busy. Took a little under six hours to get the engine and trans out as an assembly. Thanks for all the advice! Left the hood on and removed the lifts, removed the fan and radiator ( radiator isn't necessary), unbolted the compressor and power steering pump, h pipe at manifolds, driveshaft and crossmember. Left the harness, throttle body, and intake on and used a strap through the intake to pull the assembly. Not as easy as a 289 but very easy to pull. I thought I was pretty slick with the crossmember. I wrapped a 2" strap around it and than put the strap around a 6x6 and under a bottle jack. Used the bottle jack to lift the frame and the strap to hold the cossmember down. With a few good whacks from a mallet as I jacked it up the crossmember popped right out. Engine went on the stand and the transmission went on a dolly. The jerks that put this engine in must have put the torque converter on with an impact, forgot to attach the rear ground strap, left the wire harness laying on the egr tube to melt, and even cross threaded one of the bellhousing bolts.


Tonight I tore into the engine. The pain of not knowing was eating at me. This engine is a Ford reman with the nameplate and serial number to prove it. Bonuses for last revision DC heads but it is still just a standard Windsor block. Removed the cam covers and the heads looked bright and shiny, like they should for 60k miles. Timing set looks almost new as well but that is all the good news I have. When I drained the oil I saw a little drip of silver pigment come out but that was it. Removed the pan and there was a thick film of what looked like silver paint on the top of the oil....crap. Found a few 1/8" diameter flakes of bright metal in the oil pickup.....crap. Removed the windage tray and started jiggling rods.....damnit. #8 rod is loose. I removed the cap and the back of the bearing has shiny high spots around the centerline and off axis rotating wear lines on it but the lug is intact and there is no discoloration. When I removed the bearing it was a different story. The bearing surface is shiny and fretted. One side of the bearing surface is intact but the other half that isn't fretted has been torn off. My heart sinks because I can feel unevenness in the surface of the crank. I cant hook a nail on it so maybe it can be polished out. Based on Mahle's bearing failure mode literature it looks like straight up oil starvation.


https://www.mahle-aftermarket.com/me...s-brochure.pdf


I have been religious about checking the oil because this car is new to me. That stupid wannabe dummy light oil gauge on the console didn't tell me anything but I'm going with oil starvation. I haven't checked the oil pump condition and forgot to check the bearing oil hole for proper location, so I'll check those the next time I'm in the garage.


I'm super bummed. Waited 14 years to finally get a Marauder, do a bunch of work to get her back on the road, and now 60k mile Ford reman engine goes down. 2.5 year old twins mean that time and money are at a premium right now. I'm hoping that maybe I can sell some other parts to scrape together $3k.


I would love to hear some opinions on how you would proceed. I can pull an aviator engine from the junkyard for around $500 and a boat load of time, I can grab a 100k mile complete 01 cobra engine locally for $1000, or I can try to find a Kellogg crank and from what I have. I hate the idea of putting a used engine in it and the potential for more problems. I would really like to build an aluminator but with my budget that that would take a ton of scrounging and who knows how long to do it.


Damn, damn, damn. Down and out in Baltimore.


Thanks for the advice and reading my ramble. Looks like I'm out of attachment space so I'll have to get pictures hosted somewhere else and link them later.

[Themarauderguy]

Just find a low mileage Crown Vic engine and put your Marauder heads and timing assembly and timing cover on it on it. it'll save you a lot of money. you can get a complete head gasket sets online pretty reasonable with head bolts. that's the cheap route might have a slight less power but it's the cheaper option. if you can find the Lincoln Mark 8 block look for them, but they're getting kind of far few to fine now. at least in this part of the country.

[Zack]

Just find a low mileage Crown Vic engine and put your Marauder heads and timing assembly and timing cover on it on it. it'll save you a lot of money. you can get a complete head gasket sets online pretty reasonable with head bolts. that's the cheap route might have a slight less power but it's the cheaper option.

This is the worst advice in the history of this forum.
Please stop posting, because some may actually believe you.

[blazen71]

This is the worst advice in the history of this forum.
Please stop posting, because some may actually believe you.

This just made my day

[Curless]

This is the worst advice in the history of this forum.
Please stop posting, because some may actually believe you.

Truth... this is a no bueno suggestion...

[stevengerard]

I'll let the experts chime in about the engine. I'll give some dad advice, as a father of 4 kids, the last two twins I feel for you. The expenses only go up, but I wouldn't trade it for the world. Time with them is even more valuable than the almighty dollar, so enjoy it. Time goes by really, really fast. Every stage with twins (any child for that matter) has its ups and downs but 2.5 year old twins is an awesome busy age—enjoy it.

I have owned my MM since new, it is far from the car I would have picked but with 4 kids I had to make sacrifices and it was the best choice at the time. I appreciated it for what it was and now like it as much if not more as they get rarer and rarer. But that also meant it was a daily driver, eaten in, puked in, tantrums thrown in it, baseballs hitting it, etc. I have rebuilt everything on the car at least once. Now its looking like a paint job may be in order sooner than later. Since its been paid for for 15 years and doubled as a family/fun car it really has been a value and I can't complain. Good luck with your choice. Since you seem knowledgeable and mechanically inclined my gut would be to get a cheap replacement engine to get the car running while slowly rebuilding the engine of your choice. It limits the down time and provides you with managing the expense of the slippery slope of building an engine the way you want to.

[Themarauderguy]

I've done it before for several guys. and they ran just fine. If you don't like my advice don't have to take it! If you'd worked on as many 4.6 blocks as I have. you would know the marauder block is nothing special. yes it has high-compression Pistons big deal! Not everybody wants to spend three and four thousand to get a reman 4.6 engine when they can use a cheap Crown Vic block. and get the marauder up and running again. that was the point of my post. if you want to go with a built hot rod supercharged engine then Build It Up the way you want. Lol.

[Themarauderguy]

Crown vic engine a junk yard 300 to 400. Head gasket set 200. If you do the work yourself you're just out your own time. So for about five to six hundred you could have your Marauder back up and running. it's going to make less power duh we all know that. but it's going to save money and your car will be up and running. Until you can get money together to do it the way you want. and build another engine or whatever your desires are.

[Themarauderguy]

And I'll post whatever I like on this form! I'm not breaking any form rules if you guys don't like it don't read it!!! I am knowledgeable on what I am talking about and have done it, so if you don't like it well that's just tough luck. And the people who I've fix their Marauders that had bottom end failures. I used Crown Vic blocks with the marauder heads love them and drive them and haven't had any issues. proceed trash talk like you guys in the Forum love to do. it's a new ideal. I mean it's not like the marauder engine block really makes a huge amount of oh my God it's super powerful power to begin with, lol so who gives it hoot.

[musclemerc]

I've done it before for several guys. and they ran just fine. If you don't like my advice don't have to take it! If you'd worked on as many 4.6 blocks as I have. you would know the marauder block is nothing special. yes it has high-compression Pistons big deal! Not everybody wants to spend three and four thousand to get a reman 4.6 engine when they can use a cheap Crown Vic block. and get the marauder up and running again. that was the point of my post. if you want to go with a built hot rod supercharged engine then Build It Up the way you want. Lol.

You're correct.... The block isn't special just higher CR and aluminum material.
It will work 100% just not the same power

The first M-122 powered Vic used a stock CV block and swapped to a 4v setup. Worked just fine till Drac got the Terminator block swapped in.

[decipha]

I agree with the 4.6 crown vic route and actually think it was good advice. Why all the hatred to the poster and so many strongly against it? Something I don't know? Its the cheapest / fastest route to get you going in a hurry. Just don't forget to drill the deck of the block for the 4v water passages else you'll overheat it some bad...

Probably your best option is to assess the damage first. Rip the crank out and bring it to your machine shop to see if its salvageable. If it is then just fix it and slap it all back together if not you can try to source a crank but for the price of a cobra crank your looking roughly 1,000. I just sold one a couple months ago for $500 so you might be at a wash at that point.