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Thread: WOT "Bog" ...... Cruise "Bucking"......

  1. #1
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    WOT "Bog" ...... Cruise "Bucking"......

    Hey Folks.....

    Dennis responded to my "Wot Bog" thread with a new SCT 9100 file to try in my 04 Marauder!!! Thanks Mr. Reinhart!!!

    The program Dennis sent works much better with only a hint of WOT "Bog" which is probably related to alternator control??

    Dennis' program Locks the TC in 4th at 50 MPH (Ideal!!) and with O/D off it locks in 3rd at 40 MPH (Also very nice!!).......Problem is my car was bucking with the TC locked in 4th at about 1500 RPM's....Seemed like a slight misfire at constant speed that went away upon acceleration??? Pretty annoying around town but not as evident at highway speeds....2000 RPM's.

    I had replaced my NGK (TR6IX) plugs a month ago with another set but this time, at the direction of an NGK tech, gapped them at .050" (My first set was at factory setting of .035"). I wondered if the wider setting was causing this "Bucking" so I pulled them yesterday and set them at .040"......VOILA.....NO MORE BUCKING IN TC LOCK!!!!! BTW I couldn't feel it or hear it with the TC unlocked so it was ever so slight.

    I wonder what the Densos are set at from the factory?? I had some for about 12K miles but upon hearing about someone having problems removed them and replaced with NGK's with a larger Iridium electrode!!

    Just thought I'd post this incase anyone else has this slight misfire condition!!??

    Marauderjack
    No Marauder

  2. #2
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    Im Pretty sure my Densos were Gapped at .050 and the only issue I have is that the idle seems a bit choppy at times, but no hesitations

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  3. #3
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    It wasn't a hesitation but a minor miss!!! Only once every 10-15 seconds or so but very noticable!!!

    Most "Non-Factory" tunes lock the TC 100% and any engine bucking or misfires are accentuated by this!! It is my understanding that "Stock" programs lock the TC in varying degrees allowing some slippage and making the misfires less noticable??

    I believe that .050" is too wide a gap for Iridium plugs since going to .040" eliminated the problem!!

    BTW blower cars have spark gap recommendations of .035" to ensured good spark at elevated fuel and air volumes...I think??

    Marauderjack
    No Marauder

  4. #4
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    Plug Tech-

    Did you use anti-seize on the treads? Did you remove with a warm engine? I ask because I'm going to pull the plugs on my dad's '93 Gran Marquis and am wary of taking out the plug hole threads since we don't know the maintenance history and I wish to avoid having to Heli-coil them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marauderjack
    It wasn't a hesitation but a minor miss!!! Only once every 10-15 seconds or so but very noticable!!!

    Most "Non-Factory" tunes lock the TC 100% and any engine bucking or misfires are accentuated by this!! It is my understanding that "Stock" programs lock the TC in varying degrees allowing some slippage and making the misfires less noticable??

    I believe that .050" is too wide a gap for Iridium plugs since going to .040" eliminated the problem!!

    BTW blower cars have spark gap recommendations of .035" to ensured good spark at elevated fuel and air volumes...I think??

    Marauderjack

  5. #5
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    All I use for aluminum heads is a dab of Hi-Temp silicone grease...snug them down good and that's it!! I have never torqued them and never had any issues with threads....mostly outboard motors over the years??

    Honestly there should be enough oil on the threads from the combustion process not to worry about it??

    Be sure to do it on a cold engine or you will bring threads out too!!

    Marauderjack
    No Marauder

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreekGod
    Did you use anti-seize on the treads? Did you remove with a warm engine?
    GreekGod, do NOT attempt to remove the plugs from a warm engine, or you WILL become a heli-coil expert. Do it when cold ONLY! If one seems to bind up a little when you're removing it, just kind of work it back and forth (in and out?...up and down?) a little and it should eventually come out without damaging anything.

    Another tip is to be sure you blow all the dirt and debris out of the spark plug wells BEFORE you remove them. You don't want that junk dropping down into the cylinders or getting stuck in the threads and creating a problem when you put the new ones in.

    As far as using anti-seize, that seems to be a matter of debate. The factory does not use it, but many knowledgeable people say to do so...if you do, use it VERY SPARINGLY...just a tiny dab on the threads. You should also reduce the setting on your torque wrench by about 10% if you use anti-seize...you ARE going to use a torque wrench to install the new plugs, RIGHT?
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  7. #7
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    Hot And Cold-

    Thanks everyone for your help on this one! I couldn't remember if removal was best with a hot or a cold engine. My experience with BMW Boxer twins has made me very aware and cautious of aluminum cylinder heads. I know about using the antisieze sparringly as it is a conductor and should not be anywhere but on the threads above & outside of the chamber. I always try to use my Craftsman 'clicker' type inch pound torque wrench on sparkplugs.
    Quote Originally Posted by RF Overlord
    GreekGod, do NOT attempt to remove the plugs from a warm engine, or you WILL become a heli-coil expert. Do it when cold ONLY! If one seems to bind up a little when you're removing it, just kind of work it back and forth (in and out?...up and down?) a little and it should eventually come out without damaging anything.

    Another tip is to be sure you blow all the dirt and debris out of the spark plug wells BEFORE you remove them. You don't want that junk dropping down into the cylinders or getting stuck in the threads and creating a problem when you put the new ones in.

    As far as using anti-seize, that seems to be a matter of debate. The factory does not use it, but many knowledgeable people say to do so...if you do, use it VERY SPARINGLY...just a tiny dab on the threads. You should also reduce the setting on your torque wrench by about 10% if you use anti-seize...you ARE going to use a torque wrench to install the new plugs, RIGHT?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreekGod
    I know about using the antisieze sparringly. I always try to use my Craftsman 'clicker' type inch pound torque wrench on sparkplugs.
    The Blackbird
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  9. #9
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    Well.....I have been really critical of the TC lock and "Bucking" I have felt...and it is ever so slight but it is there at 50-55 MPH with the TC locked!!! If I listen very closely the engine is not misfiring but it is doing some quick surging...I think??

    I have checked all the vacuum lines...bunches of them and no real way to see if they are leaking!! PCV is free and working.....I pulled off the line to the intake and Holy Crap....Mega-Vacuum and crazy motor reaction!!! Sorry!! BTW...There are vacuum sensors all over the motor!!

    I wonder if 40 PSI in the rears is just accentuating road conture and or driveline lash....At 70 MPH it is not detectable and mileage is still 23-24 MPG at 75-80 MPH so it can't be serious??

    Ideas...Group??

    Marauderjack
    No Marauder

  10. #10
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    40 Psi!

    I personally think 40 psi is NUTS! Sorry, but unless you are going up a ramp to drive on two wheels like a stunt driver, contact patch would certainly seem to be compromised by going more than 3 or 4 psi above recommended pressures. My sidewall says 44 psi max., but more is not always better.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marauderjack
    I have never torqued them and never had any issues with threads....mostly outboard motors over the years??
    You would do well to rethink the torque thing on your MM. Otherwise, commit this name to memory- "TimeSert".
    Cheers,
    Jeff Cook

    '03 Marauder 300B, Dark Blue Pearl, Dark Charcoal/Flint interior, Badgeless front and rear, 4.10s and Lidio Tune

  12. #12
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    We have been around and around with the air pressure thing and 38-40 PSI will get you over 30K miles on the rears provided you don't spin them all the time....My car won't spin from a SS except in the rain!!

    My OEM rears lasted about 12K miles as I LOWERED pressure to try and save the centers (Conventional Wisdom) ...... These BFG's need more pressure to stabilize the sidewalls and prevent or minimize cetrifugal force at highway speeds from causing them to run on the centers......SECOND SET AT 40 PSI LASTED 34K MILES!!!!!

    As for "Mr. Smarty" Cook......I have a torque (inch pound) wrench and can do the plugs either way...by hand or with the torque wrench I HAVE NEVER HAD A PROBLEM!!! 45 years of outboard motors, 5 Crown Vics and now the Marauder....So far, according to you, I've been lucky...I guess??

    Marauderjack
    No Marauder

  13. #13
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    Old Suject - New problem for me

    O.K. I have my first official issue with the way my MM is running. I am at 25K and put on the GMS Coil Connectors and have developed this bucking at 1300 - 2000 RPM Seems to be in Lock-up under load conditions.

    Now I know someone else has experienced this. Seems to happen when hot. Do I need cooler plugs ???????????

    I've checked wire connections and all plugs are presently gapped at .054. Tighter gap ??????

    I am doing a lot of H-way driving and need to address this tonight. I am running a tune, but does it w/factory settings as well. I have a feeling I am running a bit rich. There is more carbon on the tailpipes than I care to see.

    I will clean out the throttle body with sensor safe spray when I address the plugs, but could use some help here, before I go chasing a ghost....
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragcity
    Seems to happen when hot. Do I need cooler plugs ???????????
    Whether cooler plugs are appropriate has nothing to do with engine (coolant) temp. The heat range of a plug determines how rapidly it dissipates heat from the electrodes into the head. I suggest you check with your tune supplier to see whether he recommends cooler plugs with his tune (some do, some don't).
    ...does it w/factory settings as well. I have a feeling I am running a bit rich. There is more carbon on the tailpipes than I care to see.
    Well, being over-rich has its pluses and minuses...on the plus side, it's safer than being too lean. On the minus side, it reduces power, and can prematurely age your cats. You should probably have your A/F checked to be sure. Also, try cleaning your MAF with electronic contact cleaner, the kind that leaves no residue. As far as cleaning the TB, make sure you use a cleaner that specifies it's safe for coated throttle bodies.

    *EDIT* Before cleaning your MAF, disconnect the negative cable from the battery and reconnect it when you're done, to allow the PCM to adapt.
    Last edited by RF Overlord; 02-07-2006 at 10:12 AM.
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  15. #15
    TripleTransAm Guest
    May be related or may not be... the Marauder (and possibly other 4.6s) tends to behave oddly at 1500 RPM. It appears to be fuel-cutoff related, since I can reproduce this by keeping the transmission in a lower gear such as 3rd while decelerating... at 1500 RPM the engine will begin to surge wildly. Judging by the exhaust note, it appears to be the fuel supply kicking back in after being in cutoff mode during the deceleration.

    Perhaps this behaviour is more noticeable (and objectionable) with new tranny programmings that keep the TCC locked even when lifting off the gas pedal completely. So the fuel supply kicking back in and out at 1500 would definitely be more noticeable with a held-locked converter. In my case, it's only noticeable through the exhaust note and the tachometer, since I have the stock calibrations on both my Marauders.

    This may not be 100% of what has been experienced in this thread, but may account for some others who experience the bucking in a more pronounced fashion at 1500 with modified TCC schedules.

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