Procharger and Paxton questions

[cougar9150]

Well since I am selling my Eaton due to other necessities I have been looking at the various centrifugal setups. I see I can pick up the mounting bracket kits fairly cheap, get the head unit, other supporting equipment, and would need to fabricate my own pipes. Preliminary estimates put me below $4k in my out of pocket costs.

I am in the process of pricing out the various options but know I would like to go with either a Paxton Novi 2000/2200 SL or Procharger P-1SC/D-1SC.

I have a couple questions in regard to each version and was wondering if some of you guys with Centrifgual kits could provide a few answers.

For the Paxton Novi 2000 will this bolt to the Vortech bracket? I found the complete mounting bracket kit for a 2003-2004 mach 1 for about $240 dollars. This includes this idler pulley, alternator spacers, etc... everything to mount a head unit just add the peripherals.

I recall guys running the Novi 1200 and 1500 but can't remember if anyone has used the 2000 or 2200 SL w/the Vortech bracket. I would like to possibly go with the Novi 2200 SL if it would fit just don't want to find out it doesn't when I go to bolt it up.

For the Procharger I could use the bracket kit for the 2003-2004 Mach 1 but I wanted some input from the F.I.T. kit owners on any suggestions or improvement they made to the original kit. It looks as though it would be fairly easy to put together a new version of the Procharger kit. Just would like a little insight.advice from anyone that does or has owned the F.I.T. kit.

Centrifugal SC just makes more sense with my current setup on the MM, along my planned N/A mods the car will just be waiting for a centrifugal to go on. No replacing gears, and torque converter like I would probably need to do with the Eaton swap.

[Zack]

You would need to change the gears and torque converter for the CENTRIFUGAL.

Paxtons will not bolt to a Vortech bracket.

[cougar9150]

You would need to change the gears and torque converter for the CENTRIFUGAL.

Paxtons will not bolt to a Vortech bracket.

Why? Most guys I see with the centrifugal have lower gears and a higher stall TC.

Thanks for the paxton info, procharger it is.

[RR|Suki]

I'd say call Paxton, their customer service guys are pretty nice. I would tend to agree with Zack though and say that even though they are both Vortech companies, the 2000 prob won't bolt to a vortech bracket.
The 2000 may not be the best blower on a budget though, it's a big blower and makes big power, so even used people are usually asking quite a bit for em.

Also the intake pipe for the 2000 will be touching the radiator due to the size of the case, so just trimming the radiator shroud or using a mustang shroud is not gonna fly.

If you do decide you want the 2000 you'll want the brackets for the 99-01 Cobra I believe it was, they have the same tensioner setup as us, and so there is an inner bracket that we would need that the older cobras with the 3 bolt tensioner (96-98?) won't have.

[cougar9150]

I have no particular preference, just want a self lubricated system. I have always wanted a novi but overall costs and parts availability will come into play on the final decision.

The prochargers are good units, a bit cheaper with more, and brackets are more readily available so I think that will be the easiest, most cost effective path.

Most of the bracket kits for the 2001 cobra seem to be the same as the Mach 1. I did notice that the alternator spacer were slightly different but not by much.

[RR|Suki]

I have no particular preference, just want a self lubricated system. I have always wanted a novi but overall costs and parts availability will come into play on the final decision.

The prochargers are good units, a bit cheaper with more, and brackets are more readily available so I think that will be the easiest, most cost effective path.

Most of the bracket kits for the 2001 cobra seem to be the same as the Mach 1. I did notice that the alternator spacer were slightly different but not by much.

2000 isn't self oiled, just a heads up

[cougar9150]

I was thinking the SL version Paxton units, but see they don't offer the 2000.

Definitely pushing me more to the ProCharger since I know the 2200 won't fit if the 200 doesn't

[sailsmen]

"A standard production P-1SC supercharger, manufactured by Accessible Technologies, Inc., was commercially procured and tested on the gas compressor test stand, in accordance with the SAE J-1723 standard. Pressure rise, flow, and compressor efficiency were tested, and a compressor map was developed and presented. Mechanical efficiency was also evaluated. Performance comparisons to a competing supercharger product (S-Trim, manufactured by Vortech Engineering, Inc.) were presented. Overall, the P-1SC ranks among the poorest performing compressors ever tested at this facility; it achieved a best efficiency island of 59%. Operating range (pressure rise and flow) within 55% or better efficiency is far below the manufacturer’s listed specifications. Through post-test analysis, the data indicate that a P-1SC requires approximately 33% more shaft power to develop an incremental pound (psia) of boost, at the same flowrate, than the S-Trim compressor (power coefficient – total dynamic head). Approximately 53% more power is required to deliver an incremental pound-per-cubic foot of density rise, at the same flowrate (power coefficient – density rise)."

[RR|Suki]

I was thinking the SL version Paxton units, but see they don't offer the 2000.

Definitely pushing me more to the ProCharger since I know the 2200 won't fit if the 200 doesn't

You have it a bit wrong, the 2000 and 2200 are not even from the same line of blowers. The 2200 and the 1500 are more like the vortech cases, where the 1000 and the 2000 are pretty different. If you look at pics you'll see they are pretty different.

So really the case on the 2200 is not as big as the case on the 2000

2200


2000

[cougar9150]

You have it a bit wrong, the 2000 and 2200 are not even from the same line of blowers. The 2200 and the 1500 are more like the vortech cases, where the 1000 and the 2000 are pretty different. If you look at pics you'll see they are pretty different.

So really the case on the 2200 is not as big as the case on the 2000

I see, I was just going off the 2 sections on the Paxton website that break down the SC lines

http://www.paxtonauto.com/product.php?id=157

This one shows the 1200, 1220, 1500, and 2000 units. But doesn't give any specifics on case design

http://www.paxtonauto.com/product.php?id=158

The SL line shows the 1200, 1220, 1500, and 2200 units. Per their catalog it says that you can install the 2200 on any 1200, 1220, or 1500 bracketry.

Unfortunately neither really gives the technical specifications on the case dimensions. I'm still in the early stages of research and don't really know my ass from my elbow with centrifugal SCs.

At least with the Procharger I know it will fit the brackets 100%, just need to make the pipes.

I'm sure I'll be picking your brain more and more as this progresses. Still have plenty of reading and research to do before I start spending money.

[cougar9150]

"A standard production P-1SC supercharger, manufactured by Accessible Technologies, Inc., was commercially procured and tested on the gas compressor test stand, in accordance with the SAE J-1723 standard. Pressure rise, flow, and compressor efficiency were tested, and a compressor map was developed and presented. Mechanical efficiency was also evaluated. Performance comparisons to a competing supercharger product (S-Trim, manufactured by Vortech Engineering, Inc.) were presented. Overall, the P-1SC ranks among the poorest performing compressors ever tested at this facility; it achieved a best efficiency island of 59%. Operating range (pressure rise and flow) within 55% or better efficiency is far below the manufacturer’s listed specifications. Through post-test analysis, the data indicate that a P-1SC requires approximately 33% more shaft power to develop an incremental pound (psia) of boost, at the same flowrate, than the S-Trim compressor (power coefficient – total dynamic head). Approximately 53% more power is required to deliver an incremental pound-per-cubic foot of density rise, at the same flowrate (power coefficient – density rise)."

Engine intake charge air temperature is the most relevant thermal measure (not SAE J1723) for supercharger installed on a vehicle, especially when intercooled; SAE J1723 does not address the impact of engine dynamics, engine compartment heat transfer, intercooling, or deficiencies caused by supercharger location.

Also if it was so crappy it would not be the best selling unit on the market. An arguement can be made anyway. Prochargers are quality units and have had more cars in the top of the NMRA standings the last 3 years than any other manufacturers.

[RR|Suki]

Yeah that chart seems to just be self lubricated models, and engine oil fed models

[sailsmen]

Engine intake charge air temperature is the most relevant thermal measure (not SAE J1723) for supercharger installed on a vehicle, especially when intercooled; SAE J1723 does not address the impact of engine dynamics, engine compartment heat transfer, intercooling, or deficiencies caused by supercharger location.

Also if it was so crappy it would not be the best selling unit on the market. An arguement can be made anyway. Prochargers are quality units and have had more cars in the top of the NMRA standings the last 3 years than any other manufacturers.

Lots of things that are not very good sell well, popularity does not mean quality. Just look at how many people vote for the same crappy politicians year after year. The less efficient an S/C is generally the more heat it will generate. Pro Charger is known for very efficient intercoolers.

The main problem I see with Pro Charger vs Vortec is the straight cut impeller vs curved and the way the drive gears are cut. That does not mean Pro Charger is not good or that Vortec is better.

A product that has a design flaw in one area can make it up in another and a product that has a superior design in one area can loose it in another.

IF you are partial to Pro Charger why are you asking the questions?

[ImpalaSlayer]

let me see if i got this right, selling the eaton due to money issues? yet you wana spend 1000 dollars more for a centri set up? i not sure i understand

[Marauderjack]

Lots of things that are not very good sell well, popularity does not mean quality. Just look at how many people vote for the same crappy politicians year after year. The less efficient an S/C is generally the more heat it will generate. Pro Charger is known for very efficient intercoolers.

The main problem I see with Pro Charger vs Vortec is the straight cut impeller vs curved and the way the drive gears are cut. That does not mean Pro Charger is not good or that Vortec is better.

A product that has a design flaw in one area can make it up in another and a product that has a superior design in one area can loose it in another.

IF you are partial to Pro Charger why are you asking the questions?

Billy,

I have over 133K miles on my P-1SC and it works perfectly fine....makes 9.5 to 10 PSI with a 3.7 pulley and as far as I can tell doesn't generate enough heat to worry about!!!

I don't know about Paxtons or Vortex's but my ProCharger is just fine for me.......I don't give a "Tinker's Damn" about that last .001 second in drag racing!!

Also, the guys at ProCharger have been nothing but GREAT anytime I've needed anything so I'd do it again if ever the opportunity presented itself!!!

My $.02...FWIW!!