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Thread: The Prowess of the V8 Engine:

  1. #1
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    The Prowess of the V8 Engine:

    After a friendly discussion w/another member on this board in another thread about the 2005 Ford GT vs. Ferrari V12 engine cars, I felt compelled to further express my opinions about the comparisant of different engine designs. But first let me state that although I do have some knowledge on this subject, I also know that there are many others on this board who do too. Furthermore, my intention here is merely to share my opinion, and NOT to come across as being arrogant in any way. So as always I welcome opposing opinions as well as like minded opinions as long as they're expressed in a non-provoking and respectful way.

    While I really love the entire design concept of the new 2005 Ford GT, my intention is not to limit my comments, nor this thread simply to the GT alone, but rather to focus on the V8 engine, which seems to be neglected when you look at most of the concept cars these days being paraded around in auto shows. It seems that many people view a V-12 or V-10 engine as the ones to have, and as the engine designs that belong in an "Exotic" sports car, or in a "Supercar".

    Now I should point out that I've heard all the arguments in favor of the V10, and V-12 engines. They're "smoother" running, and they are better on gas mileage. Okay then, I'll buy into that theory. But my thoughts are, if i want an "all-out" performance car, why would I be concerned about gas mileage, or a "smooth" sounding engine anyway? When i hit the "Puree" button on my blender to mix a milk shake, that is pretty "smooth" sounding too. But that isn't my idea of a powerful sound.

    Now on that note about engine sound, let me pose one question here. How many guys here like the sound of a Japanese designed motorcycle engine more than the exhaust note of a Harley Davidson? Yeah, yeah, I know what you're thinking, so let me say it for you......."But Jap bikes are much faster than Harley bikes are". Well sure, they are in the stock configuration, yes. I don't think the intention of the Harley engineers is to make the fastest bikes anyway. Whereas it IS the intentions of the Jap bike manufactures to make the fastest. But I don't mean to get off topic here. I was just making a comment about engine sound.

    But as for the performance issue concerning V8 engines vs. the so called "Exotic" V-12's and V-10's, allow me to point out that it's often said in racing circles that the 350 V8 engine has won more races than any other engine in the world. And that's actually a quote taken out of a book written by the famous Smokey Yunick (uh, you might have heard of him).

    Let me pose a question here for those who question the performance potential of the good old V8 engine.........what role has the V-12 engine played on the dragstrip? And what about on the circle track? Those two types of racing represent the ultimate in raw power (Dragstrip), and the test of endurance(circle track). Need I say that the ultimate in both Drag racing as well as in circle track racing are vehicles that use the V8 engine? How many Top Fuel Rail dragsters, or Funny cars do you see at the dragstrip that have V12, or V10 engines? I haven't seen any on TV nor in person at the Drags, so there must not be very many of them, if any at all. What about in Nascar racing? Any V12's, or V10's there?

    What about in Monster truck racing? Where is a show off outstanding Torque among the Monster Trucks w/V12, or V10 engines? There's none to be found friends. Can I say it? It's ALL dominated by the good ole V8 engine. And will any of us here, or some bright young upcoming engineers pretend to know something about engine designs and power potentials that the Racers in all three types of racing that I've mentioned do NOT know? So please allow me to suggest that the next time you see what is supposed to be the ultimate performance oriented "concept" car being pitched in a magazine or at a car show, keep in mind that the Pros of all three types of racing that I've mentioned here ALWAYS use the V8 engine in their performance oriented vehicles, and they win races w/them too.

    Now there's one more type of racing that I haven't mentioned. Endurance road racing, or "Grand Prix" type racing. And here's where we come full circle and get back to the V8 powered Ford GT. Let's look at the history of the original GT which is what the 2005 GT is derived from. The Ford "GT40" built for the race track in the 60's. I know, I know, for some of you this is old news, but for those of you who have forgotten, and for those of you who don't already know, the so called "Exotic" Ferrari ruled the Track at LeMans for many years. And that's what helped build the prestige sorrounding the Ferarri.

    But in the 60's, that prestige of being top dog was crushed by none other than Ford w/the introduction of their "GT40" car. And oh, what is this it had under the hood? Well what do ya know, it was another V8 engine. It started out as a 289 cubeV8 engine, and ended up as the mighty 427 V8. And guess what? It's very first year at LeMans it crippled the Ferraris on the track. The V8 powered GT40's finished First, second, and third place in that same race! Where were the "Exotic" Ferrari's? And for the following three years the GT40 beat the Ferrari. And Ford did it all w/a V8 engine.

    So let me cap this off by saying, yeah, I get a little intense about this since I am a car enthusiast. Sure these are only cars I'm talking about, and there are a lot more important things in life to be concerned about. But I'm sure that many of you can relate to my passion for cars, since many of you share that same passion. And that goes weather you like the V8 engine as much as I do or not. But I just wanted to share my thoughts about the Prowess of the V8 engine w/those of you who are interested in hearing my opinion.

    The facts I've listed are completely accurate to my knowledge, but if anyone thinks that I've overlooked something, or if anyone has a different viewpoint, then please feel free to share also just as I have. These statements aren't directed at any one member here, so please don't think that they are. From a personal viewpoint, I'm just a little tired of seeing all these "concept" cars being pitched that have V10, and V12 engines. I still think this merely has to do w/some bright young engineers being determined to come up w/something that's different just so they can boost their carrers and make a name for themself within the companies that they work for. Perhaps that's a very opinionated veiwpoint on my part. But it's difficult for me to have another viewpoint in light of the facts that I've listed here about the V8 engine, and what has been accomplished with it.

    ...and ofcourse there's one more thing....there's nothing like that V8 growl. Nothing sounds like it. As for me, if I want to hear something "smooth" I'll fire up the lady's hair dryer, or turn on the blender, or the weed wacker. But if I want to hear the sound of power, I'll jump in my V8 engined car (either my Vette, or my Marauder) and I'll fire up that bad boy.
    Last edited by BillyGman; 01-14-2004 at 09:40 AM.

  2. #2
    noted in your "Reputation" Billy....and Hey...nice paragraphs

    I tell ya...I'm about to start a collection here just to get you into one of those GTs!!!

  3. #3
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    I dunno... I like the sound of the V10 Super Duties...

    So... You wouldn't consider have a V10 dropped into your MM I take it?

    Remember, any negative reputation points on MY posts will result in immediate
    Last edited by LincMercLover; 01-14-2004 at 09:41 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TAF
    noted in your "Reputation" Billy....and Hey...nice paragraphs

    I tell ya...I'm about to start a collection here just to get you into one of those GTs!!!
    Hey! Now you're talkin!!!!!

    ....as far as that "reputation" thing, i didn't even know about that, so I just looked it up. "Distinguished" LOL...well, I guess you would say that. I guess that's just me. I don't try to be that way, it just comes out I suppose.
    Last edited by BillyGman; 01-14-2004 at 10:04 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LincMercLover
    I dunno... I like the sound of the V10 Super Duties...

    So... You wouldn't consider have a V10 dropped into your MM I take it?

    Remember, any negative reputation points on MY posts will result in immediate
    Yes, you guessed it LML. I wouldn't be caught dead w/a V10 engine in my Marauder. That car sounds great the way it is, and I constantly get compliments from guys of all ages about how it sounds. If I wanted the thing to go faster than it does, then I would definately spend the money on the engine that's under the hood already, or buy a bigger V8 engine rather than on a V10 engine. And if they ever decide to put a V10 engine in the Marauder from the facory, I think I'd look for a way to remove the name "Marauder" from my car. No joke.

  6. #6
    dailydriver Guest
    Personally, I like the sound of any performance minded machine. From a single cylinder to a V12, they all have there place.

    The American V8, or for that matter any V8, is a great performer. BMW, to name one, uses a V8 in the M5.

    And yes, the V8 has won its share or races. And if you want to talk about endurance look overseas to the 24 hours of Le Mans. V8s have won there several times just as flat 6s, V10s, and V12s have.

    I love the V8 in my MM but I also love the V10 in my Superduty. I have raced 4 cyclinder trucks for 400 miles in the desert and loved that as well.

    I guess my point is that there are a variety of forms of racing and while the V8 is a versatile motor, there is more than one way to win.

  7. #7
    rurumon Guest
    Given that ford, chevy, and most automakers make far less v10s and v12s yet churn out thousands upon thousands of v8's yearly....how can you logically expect to find anything but these engines in most circuits?

    they are cheaper, and they get massed produced just like the cars they go in. If you are trying to make a comparison here based on use in racing its obvious there are going to be more v8s out there as well as winning races simply because they are the easiest to come by.

    If for some reason ford and chevy had been making 12 cylinder engines for whatever reason since the dawn of time your article would be singing the praises of 12 cylinders instead of 8 cylinders.

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    The reason V-8's are so prevalent in US racing circuits is for the most part driven by rules.
    NASCAR only allows V8's.
    NHRA/IHRA only allow V8's in the fuel and "pro type" classes.

    F1 allows engines to 12 cylinders,and Ferrari does very well with them.

    The "problem" with performance engines of more than 8 cylinders on the street is they need to rev to really make use of there internal arcitecture,ie;shorter stroke and bores for a given displacement.We in the US think 7000rpm is high.To make use of say a 5l engine with 12 pistons you could rev it to 9000rpm easy, with 500hp way up there.Problem is it would make peak torque at around 7000rpm! and 1/2 that around 3000rpm where we (U.S) want to drive.

    Next fuel economy,well just look at the V10 in the Viper.

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    First we got Billy using paragraphs when he writes. Now he is using words like "prowess."

    We should change his screen name to Pygmalion.

    Note to Todd: you can go ask your wife about the Pygmalion reference. She is obviously far better educated than you and will explain the reference.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by martyo
    Note to Todd: you can go ask your wife about the Pygmalion reference. She is obviously far better educated than you and will explain the reference.
    O.K. Professor Higgins....now go buy Billy that GT!!!!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by TAF
    O.K. Professor Higgins....now go buy Billy that GT!!!!
    That was nice of Christine to help you so fast with an answer!

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    Cool *8 is enough

    You can get 1,000hp from a built little 6 cylinder Toyota motor. You can also get 1,000hp with Cadillac' latest 16 cylinder concept car. However, you gotta feed them ponies whether you use them or not!

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    The sound of my V8 ROCKS!!

    Hope i'm replying the right way here, yikes........... Kinda complicated
    63 1/2' Merc 406 (434ci) tri-powered "Ratsmoker"

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    Talking

    Hey, Lincoln and Cadilac were building V12s & V16s before the Italians knew what a straight six was! V8s just plain fit better in the front engine/rear drive configuration!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krytin
    Hey, Lincoln and Cadilac were building V12s & V16s before the Italians knew what a straight six was! V8s just plain fit better in the front engine/rear drive configuration!
    I think krytin makes a good point here. I don't think it's by accident that the V8 engine has been soooo popular. And that's what it sounds like some of you are implying.

    But as far as the comment about NHRA rules: are you saying that in the Top Fuel dragster class, they cannot run anything but a V8 engine even if they wanted to run something else? Are you sure about that? I've never heard of that. I was under the impression that they can use whatever they want to in order to get down the track the fastest.

    And as far as the opinion about V8 engines being so abundant as being the only reason that they're used in drag racing, well, I don't think so. There are all types of after market companies that make engine blocks for drag racing. The Top fuel racers don't buy their engines from Ford and Chevy. How could they? They run engines that are in excess of $70,000 and use cylinder heads that employ two sparkplugs per cylinder, and sometimes two distributors, or two magnetos, so we're NOT talking about production engines anyway when it comes to professional drag racing. Right? Please enlighten me if I'm overlooking something guys. But I also ask you to be honest about it if you have overlooked something as well.

    And Marty, perhaps I just might be smarter than the average bear, but I must admit you're losing me w/that Greek Mythology stuff.

    ....oh, BTW, I would be remiss not to mention that I think it's great that so many members have offered such thought provoking replies(YES, EVEN YOU MARTY!). I want to thank everyone so far for offering their different viewpoints on this issue, even if they don't agree w/mine. I've yet to read anything here that has changed my mind about the V8 engine, but that isn't as important as everyone getting an opportunity to express their views on this, since that's what I've asked for. Thanks again guys. Uh, even you Marty. Now when are you gonna buy me that Ford GT???????
    Last edited by BillyGman; 01-14-2004 at 11:35 PM.

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